The Water Fuel Cell

[stevie1001]

Hi to you all,

In the tread serie or parallel we started talking about pipes/tubes.
Stanley called it the Resanant Cavity's.
Copied here my first input.
Please feel free to join in.


The Pipes and conditioning:
You are right about the proces of conditioning. I have to do that again when finishing my cleaning and cutting.

But there is more.
Ron, we are with a lot of people focussing on the electronics and a bit on the pipes.
After all kinds of configurations with coils and trafo's I have made a conclusion. As Stanley said many times: Its all about securing his patents. In other words: CRAP.
Yes, you can double frequency with the VIC and Yes you can get higher voltage.
And he is smiling in his grave, if you ask me.
In all his patent with the VIC you see less info about his pipes/tubes. But if you read well, I think that there is the real thing happening.
He talks about resonance. The resonant cativy!!!!
He discripes three different designs of his resonant Cavity's.
Resonance in coils is what everybody understands and is trying with all the same bad results.
Are we all stupid? NO.
I tryed to find any info or tread in many forums about the Resonant Cavity stuff.
NOT much to find as well!
This is also a clue.
Stanley published a formula how to calculated his pipes with care.............
I try to find out what to do with that.
Focus: 20Khz is a nice frequency for getting Hydrogen. So how would pipes look like for resonanting on 20Khz? Its about lenght and spacing between the 2 pipes. Perhaps also about some kind of form of the pipe-ending. (sorry for my poor english)

Ron, what do think about my theory after all the time you spend with this subject?
(and all you other guys as well, of course......)

br
Steve

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h2o2go



Joined: 20 Sep 2007
Posts: 3

Posted: Sun Sep 23, 2007 3:24 pm Post subject:

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Hi Steve,

I'm just getting into this as a project but I have wondered about the resonance of the pipes as well. One of my thoughts was about mounting the pipes. I've looked at lots of pictures of different setups and nearly all have one or both ends of the pipes rigidly mounted. If the pipes' resonance is what's needed to assist the breakup of the water molecule then isn't everyone making their work harder by "locking down" the ability of the pipes to "ring"? From some of the pictures and vids I've seen, some of the best results were from test pipes that were merely suspended in the tank for testing instead of rigidly mounted.

My thoughts have been to "tune" the pipes to the same tone and then hang them in such a way that lets them vibrate with the frequencies being pumped into them. My thoughts were to drill holes through the paired pipes near the top and to notch the bottoms and then use ceramic rods to suspend them in the tank. They'd hang from the top rod while the bottom rod would act as a "swing stop" with the pipes notches being over it. Small rubber washers (or something else that won't conduct) could be used to keep the tubes separated. To me this would allow the pipes the easiest chance of "ringing" with the frequency needed without huge amounts of power being needed. We need to be thinking "musical instrument" and not "industrial vibrator".

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stevie1001



Joined: 06 Jun 2007
Posts: 46

Posted: Sun Sep 23, 2007 3:59 pm Post subject:

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I am looking too much on computers these days.......
@h2o2go
Perhaps you are right about the mechanical structure thing here.
I was more thinking about some kind of wavepipe, like you have with Ghz filter stuff.
The voltage wave should bounch between the innerpipe and the outerpipe as if the frequency of the wave matches the space between them.

Another theory:
At this moment we all put one wave in one pipe and the other pipe is ground.
Perhaps we have to start thinking of 2 waves. One in each pipe.
Try to get resonance between two frequencys, like 20khz and 60Khz. I read something about the 20Khz is nice to Hydrogen and the difference should be 1/3
Just some thought on the late Sunday afternoon..........

Please respond people.......

Br

[h2o2go]

KISS



Joined: 04 Jul 2006
Posts: 33

Just a thought...

Even if 2 tubes, inner and outer, are tuned to ring the same, once you put a spacer between the 2 to space them, that spacer would act as a dampner and the pipes would not ring. That would be the hanging a set of tubes from a string scenerio.

Other than that scenerio.... any touching of the pipes such as standing them on the floor of the cell container, connecting them to any mounting framwork, or even together, would dampen or disrupt the ringing of the pipes.

Not saying this would stop them from ringing at all... but would effect it considerably.

Stan had his set up to where all the tubes were tied together with a mounting plate.

Just some things to consider..... I smell brain cells burning... hehehe
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h2o2go



Joined: 19 Sep 2007
Posts: 3

Depending upon circuit hookup, just going by electron flow, the "ground pipe" is getting the wave first and the water is the media whereby the wave propagates to the positive pipe so both should be resonating at the same freq. but with a small "delay" (or timing offset) because of the time to traverse the water between. As far as one pipe being "ground" that's only if you connect it to "circuit ground". Being that these get fed from the secondary of the transformer, you can leave it isolated from "ground" thus leaving the loop(s) to "float" at whatever potential is created. From the circuits drawings I've observed the pipes are being pulsed in one direction only so as not to cancel the effect with the reverse voltage direction.

Just thinking out loud...
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h2o2go



Joined: 19 Sep 2007
Posts: 3

[h2o2go]

I've got some more "thinking out loud" comments.

I've seen someone post before that they believed the pipes to be acting as a resistor and that current was flowing between them. I don't believe this can be the case at all. The reason behind this is that as you connect more pipes in parallel the current decreases which is what happens in a capacitive circuit. All other non-capacitive devices when connected in parallel cause an increase in current demand/flow.

With the above in mind, then any setups that are utilizing any form of electrolyte are not resonant reactions and would only serve to increase the current requirements and not lessen them.

So looking at the pipes as capacitors, we need to allow them to a) resonate and b) find the right frequency for that resonance. Some other possible concerns will be what effects differences in temperature and water type (tap, distilled, deionized, etc.) have upon the efficiency of the resonant action. As far as finding our resonant circuit inductor sizes we need to know what the capacitance of each pipe combination is and ideally all parallel pipe combos would be within a few percent of the same capacitance. If we can figure this out then the construction of the pipes and the reaction cells should be able to be somewhat standardized along with the control circuit's component values.

I know there's more but I'm just posting thoughts as I go. Maybe someone who already has some test rigs could try some of this stuff out as I'm still a fair way away from being to that point.

[h2o2go]

From the studies I've done, resonance of the circuit is reached between inductors and capacitors when their respective vectored impedances add up to zero. Once we know the capacitance of the pipe assemblies, the size(s) of the inductor(s) can be calculated. Anything less is a shot in the dark.

[stevie1001]

Its my theory as well. The pipes working as a capacitor and you get resonance with an inductor.

To calculated the capacitance of your WFC somebody made a calculator.
I attached it. Please feel free to use it.
I havnt used it yet, so its your own risc!

Br
Steve

[hydrocars]

i know that in stanleys patent he mentions that he used a .75 od outside tune, .50 od inside tube. 1.5mm gap. tube 4 inches tall.

secondary coil 600 wraps of 36 awg, choke 100 wraps 24 awg "RESISTANCE WIRE". tuning choke is a wiper arm choke, wraps and core is unknown to me.

if someone could get this tube and set this up as stanley explained, SEE IF IT RESONATES.

if this is true then the rest would go together quickly.

i have 6 tubes with a spacing of 1/16 of an inch, i tried 1800 wraps of 36 awg, 100 wraps choke of no resistance wire, there is bubbles but not worth talking about.

unfortanitly i have spent all my money, and i am low on the needed parts to take further testing, it will be a while before i can test stanleys patent. maybe someone could do it now, someone that already has the parts?

[PULSED)ReverseH/Ofuelcell]

Hey guys, I was just thinking that if you got the pipes to resonate at the stainless steels natural frequency, how would that help make hydrogen?

I personally think what we want to happen is LC resonance, between the cap and inductor.

But there is still something missing, maybe it is the diode. Maybe we are using diodes that are too weak?

Crux/Aarons got the LC circuit to work, if you look at his chokes, they are around the same dimensions as ours. But what did he use for the diodes? Strong high voltage rated rectifier diodes, and he put them in a full wave rectifier formation. I am going to get new diodes and put them in place of my old ones.

And also, in most LC circuits, there are small capacitors, don’t know how that helps, so I’m going to do research on that later.

I also agree that we need to calculate the inductance and capacitance to find the resonant frequency, here we go into algebra! Or… we can find a LC meter, I know there are LC meters around, ill check it out.

Here is a link on how the inductor can charge a capacitor by resonating with it, you would do your self’s good to read through it.

http://www.richieburnett.co.uk/dcreschg.html

Have a nice day!

[hydrocars]

i don't know what crux has done, by the time i got here i had already missed the show, or atleast i felt like i did... Do you have a link to crux's circuit? i cant find it to save my life, you given it to me before but i lost it since then.

the VIC resonant circuit, the transformer resonates with the 2 chokes, if you was to remove the water fuel cell from the circuit the resonate frequency would still be about the same "i would think". so i'm thinking the secondary coil is resonating with the chokes and not the cell, that the cell is just there along for the ride.

i don't know what happened to crux, has someone tried seding him a PM so that it will show up in his email? did the MIB getem? why isn't he talking????

[stevie1001]

Crux filed some pictures of his scope about resonance which he said was only with his DL circuit and coils and WFC.
He left out critical info.
He didnt publishe exact what he did.
Only the results should be spectaculair.......ye ye ye.
I dont believe this anymore. All the blablabla about succes. If you dont publishe how you did it and without the option for the others to copy the results, I am now very suspicous about these kinds of publications.

Never the less, I do appriciate the efforts of crux as I do to all of you guys trying hacking the SM formula.

Br
Steve

[PULSED)ReverseH/Ofuelcell]

Hey guys!

Just found a great LC resonance calculator!

Check it out here! Just fill in any two of the forms and it will calculate the third. But you must know the value of your inductor and capacitor for it to work.

http://www.daycounter.com/Calculators/LC-Resonance-Calculator.phtml

Also look at this inductance meter; it is for an air core though, but still intrusting

http://www.daycounter.com/Calculators/Air-Core-Inductor-Calculator.phtml

Hydro, here is the link for Cruxes circuit…

http://www.freeenergynews.com/Directory/Electrolysis/StanleyMeyers/Aarons_WFC_circuit.pdf

See you all,

[stevie1001]

Attached you can read that SM had a formula to calculated his pipes......
Hope you can do something with it.
I cannot copy that nicely at this moment, but you all have them somewhere, I suppose.

Br
'Steve

[h2o2go]

Hi Steve,

I think those drawings pertained to his water 'injector' that was under development and not the resonance tubes we're trying to use.

[h2o2go]

[PULSED)ReverseH/Ofuelcell]

Hey H2o2go,

I was going to say that earlier, those pictures’ are for the fuel injector, and not the water fuel cell that we are making. Thanks anyway.

H2o, you have the just of it! Good work.

Welcome to the forum!

[crux_wfc]

Resonant cavities/wave guides are typically .060 inches(1.5mm) - .010 inches(0.25mm) gap and can be any length.

All voltage zones should be connected in parallel for Meyer's Water Fuel Cell Technology. If you want to do series look up Rhodes or Boyce and is not Meyer's Water Fuel Cell Technology. The voltage zones should be rigidly secured. Meyer's Water Fuel Cell Technology DOES NOT USE VIBRATION of the voltage zones to get resonance at all(the resonance is purely electrical), and if he did he would say so. If that is how you want to split water than look up ultra sonic disassociation of water. The reason for the cuts on top part of Meyer's DEMONSTRATION cell is simply to give the gas escaping more surface area to leave the resonance cavities. Meyer's also never used a coating on any voltage zone nor did he have to condition his tubes in any way, besides just making sure the voltage zones were just clean 304 stainless steel or better. With as much research and testing that I have done the only thing that I have found that Meyer's did to protect his patent was to not give exact physical measurements on construction and was misleading about how to connect the bifilar chokes.


Fact: The smaller gap the more gas production,faster heating, harding propulsion, and instant explosion of water.


There is a special purpose for each style of resonant cavity/wave guide(Linear, Non-Linear, and Tapered).

Linear is generally for gas production,gas ionization, electricity generation, heating water, and exploding water.

Non-Linear is generally for propulsion of water and possibly heating water(meaning generally not for gas production).

Tapered is for instant explosion of water(spark plug injector). Meyer's says that a tapered resonant cavity multiplies the voltage because it is a wave guide that is basically compressing the waves in to one point.


YOU WILL NOT GET RESONANCE/WAVE GUIDE/GAS PRODUCTION/INSTANT EXPLOSION OF WATER EFFECTS UNTIL YOU OVER COME AMP LEAKAGE. See my post on "Bifilar Chokes are the Key".