Elements Themeset

I think everyone should probably start where they feel they will have the most success. Although low voltage is a completely different approach and has nothing to do with the Water Fuel Cell, I and many others are open minded and optimistic that low voltage electrolysis might give rise to new efficiencies over 100%. The ultimate goal would be able to supply enough gas to power a vehicle on demand.

Before you waste time experimenting on something that has already been done before or asking people silly questions on forums, read this information below and refer to books in the resource section. I am going to compile a great resource for experimenters in low voltage electrolysis.

I have created this section on low voltage electrolysis to give answers or a guide to these topics.

There are plenty of people building different types of electrolysers on the forums.

I will try and fast track the learning process by teaching you what I have learned. I will base this on what I have read in books and observed from other experimenters.

Hydrogen/oxygen generated during electrolysis is dependent on current (amperage)

If voltage is to rise higher than the lower limit then power is wasted. (refer below)

For example: An electrolyser using 2000 volts and 2amp would produce approximately the same amount of gas as a 2 volts and 2amp electrolyser.

When calculating the power in watts, you can really see how much power you are wasting. (refer below)

"This theoretical figure was determined by taking the energy released

per mole when hydrogen is burned. Using that figure, and knowing

how many amp hours are needed to produce 1 mole of gas, they

calculated the theoretical minimum voltage."

I need a better explanation why the minimum voltage is 1.24 Volts. I am open to your input. Please also provide a link if possible. contact me.

At 25 degree Celsius Using voltages between 1.24 and 1.47 Volts will not produce heat it actually absorbs heat from the environment. This is called a endothermic reaction.

1.481 volts is referred to as a thermo neutral reaction. This is the critical limit. Our electrolysis chamber will actually remain cold or similar temp to the environment you have it in, if you don't go over the 1.481 Volt limit. If you do go over, you will produce heat this is called a Exothermic reaction.

See this information that explains a thermo neutral reaction (need a link....contact me )

Raising the voltage means the cell temp will rise. This occurs when exceeding the 1.481 limit. We don't want to exceed this upper limit too far because of the risk of boiling/evaporation. We waste power and it may produce steam/Water vapor. This will enter the combustion chamber leading to a decrease in power.

I have recently read an article that pulsing the voltage will regulate the temperature when exceeding voltages above 1.481. See here

At 25 degrees Celsius the necessary voltage needed to electrolyses water is 1.24 volts. Increasing the cell temperature will actually lower the 1.24 volt limit.

For Every 1 degree Celsius raised during this voltage level you can drop the 1.24 Volt minimum by 0.82mv.

I believe the best way to heat the cell will be to capture any heat that will be given of by the engine friction or exhaust gases. thoughts?

With rising cell temperature for every degree Celsius it increases the necessary voltage by 44.4 mv when the pressure is increased 10 times.

Lets get familiar with the best cell configurations I will use a 12volt source in the examples

If you don't isolate the cells like I have described above your voltage per cell

I have been informed that the above is due to bypass leakage currents so the only way to stop this from happening is to isolate the cells within the container so no electrolyte can pass between, like I have shown above.

It has just been found that a very small hole drilled through all the plates to give electrolyte equalization will cause minimal current bypass within a acceptable limit......so this is good news!

If your wanting to see how efficient your cell is download Warj's calculator (Part 8). This is very well done and makes everyones life alot easier, see here

If you prefer you may want to use this information supplied be Tero here or the Electrolysis Site or just plug in the values here titled (hydrogen.exe executable) and it will spit it out.

Hi, Willard's efficiency number (2.3516W/LPH) refers to oxyhydrogen volume (2/3 H2 and 1/3 O2 per volume). The number will be different for hydrogen only. For all practical purposes 1.47V cell voltage will be 100% efficient electrolyzer. The endothermic value 1.23V would be 120% efficient, as part of the input energy would come from the ambient thermal energy. Tero

A 3mm gap is thought to be a good clearance to have between plates in a electrolyser, but this has been suspected of causing problems with foaming in Tero's design and we will be soon experimenting with a 8mm gap.

You must choose a electrolyte such as Potassium hydroxide (KOH) and use distilled water. It has always been the recommended electrolyte for the main reason that it stays in the electrolyte and does not cause a toxic gas such as chlorine when using salt as a electrolyte.

more on choosing the appropriate ratio of KOH and other information/dangers See here

The most common is a 12-volt battery but as we discussed above voltage must be around 1.24 and 1.47 or just over for efficient production. A series cell design may be the most economical approach. This will reduce the voltage. Refer to the series cell designs above.

A regulated, pulsed, or variable power supply may be suitable, but large amperage is needed for most cells these types of power supply can be expensive and hard to find. Twelve volts batteries in parallel will supply a lot of current. Make sure you use a series cell design to cut down the voltage.

I was also thinking of rectifying the output of a AC arc welder and feeding this into a series cell design. An arc welder usually produces around 50 volt and pumps out around 100amp. More information to be given on this later. I will give it some more thought.

Bubblers help in giving you some sought of protection from the cell exploding, so don't think you don't need it. There is no backflash arrestor I know of that is quick enough to stop a hydrogen/oxygen flame.

Stanley Meyer worked on the principle of the gas traveling through very small holes stopped the backflash, but it needed to be mixed with non combustible gasses.

See the Hydrogen Fracturing Process book
section 2 Titled Quenching circuit technology (specifically
2-3 for written information) and figure 2-4, 2-6, 2-7

If the hydrogen/oxygen is injected before spark ignition occurs, then the injector will be closed before the gas is even ignited. It also has another advantage of being precisely metered. I think port injection might be the best option, but a specific hydrogen injector might have to be used and definitely a bubbler.

A problem that exists with single cylinder four stroke engines is that the spark occurs on the exhaust stroke as well as the firing stroke. The combustion occurs on the exhaust stroke (Backfire). This is because the unburnt hydrogen gases reignite!

I think all of the methods above are dangerous and I do not advise anyone to use any methods, so it's at your own risk.

At atmospheric pressure and 25degress Celsius hydrogen gas is 75% orthohydrogen and 25% Parahydrogen. When Hydrogen gas is liquefied, it all converts into Parahydrogen.

Orthohydrogen electrons spin in the same direction and the gas is very explosive.

"As is well understood by those skilled in the art, orthohydrogen is highly combustible. Therefore, any orthohydrogen produced can be transported from the container 111 through valve 102 and outlet tube 101 to be used by a device such as an internal combustion engine."

Parahydrogen has electrons spinning in opposite directions , is slower burning, and is safer to use.

"Parahydrogen is not as highly combustible as orthohydrogen and
hence is a slower burning form of hydrogen. Thus, if Parahydrogen
is produced by the cell, the Parahydrogen can be coupled to a
suitable device such as a cooker or a furnace to provide a source of power
or heat with a slower flame."

Monatomic hydrogen is thought of as more explosive because it travels as a single gas atom (H) and doesn't cling to other hydrogen atoms. This makes it great for combustion because it is less work to break it down.

Diatomic hydrogen is thought of as less explosive because it travel in groups of hydrogen (H₂) atoms. There is more work needed to combust this gas and is thought of as less explosive.

Xogen seem to have the orthohydrogen part under control with the pulsing of the plates see the patent work needs to be done on our behalf to figure out how to produce these gases. I need more information for this section Please Help.

What I think we need to produce is monatomic hydrogen that is in a orthohydrogen state.

This may suit our electrolysers and Combustion engines. We may only need 1% of gas in the combustion chamber.

By what I understand using a stoichiometric air fuel ratio will result in high NOX emissions. This is not good for the environment and is a waste of fuel. It needs to be diluted with more air.

Hydrogen can run at ratios 180 to 1 by mass ratio or in other words about 5% of the combustion chamber. The stoichiometric ratio is a lot higher 34 to 1 by mass, that's about 30% of the combustion chamber. Using the 5% ratio suits the environment and us!

So lets do the math and see how much hydrogen we need to power a 100cc engine running at 1000rpm.

A four stroke engine doing 1000 revolutions per minute will fire 500 times, so we only need to supply fuel for that 500 compression strokes. If you are not familiar with the four stroke cycle see this.

The minimum required fuel air ratio is 5% hydrogen in the combustion chamber, so that equals 5cc in a 100cc engine.

So that means for a 100cc engine, we need 2.5 liters of hydrogen per minute for a engine running at 1000rpm.

Now if we use this calculator here titled (hydrogen.exe executable) we can work out using electrolysis how much current we need to pump through a electrolyser. See results below:

If you use port injection, high energy ignition system, High compression Ratio etc it may be possible to use this low ratio?.....who knows ?...that's why we need to find out.

Warj has created 2 calculators.

see part 7 and 8 here

Elements Themeset

Part 7 is a calculator for how much hydrogen a car will take to run

Part 8 is a calculator for how much hydrogen you are making, and efficiency status

This is great work by Warj, I really appreciate it.

I feel that a pipe feed electrolyser going to a small 100cc engine, that is not properly regulating, will result in huge wasteful amount being uncombusted and would run out of gas very quickly! The first few strokes would gobble up all the gas. I think either a proper injection system or a regulated hydrogen/oxygen gas supply will be the only way.

Some people speculate you can go even lower than the minimum 5% ratio. I don't know. This is why we need to experiment and build a electrolyser and get a small engine running.

Also something that I have not equated for in the calculation above was the extra oxygen being created by the electrolyser and entering the combustion chamber as well as the hydrogen. This must certainly help in aiding the combustion process, doesn’t it?

Hi,

I found a patent (US4184931) by Inoue that claims pulsed electrolysis
with KOH electrolyte produces 25% increase in gas output with the gas
moisture (=electrolyte vapor) content reduced five times at the same
gas output level. I consider this a very good development, because I
have had lots of problems with foaming and electrolyte vapor while
running my small engines on oxyhydrogen (practically straight DC).

Download here

The patent recommends 5-50ms ON time with OFF times 2..30 times the
OF time.

I believe you should use a large capacitor between power supply and
switch FET so that you get really high current peaks to further
improve electrolyzer efficiency. Bockris reported in the 70s that you
get about twice the gas output by using very narrow but very high
current spikes instead of straight DC.

The patent also claims that by using narrow pulses instead of
straight DC improves the gas output from 55cc/min to 68cc/min. The
KOH vapor content in the output gas is reduced from 15% to 3%.

Tero

Hi,

I just found a very interesting and detailed patent about electrolysis
using spiral swiss roll type electrodes with permanent magnets to
create a vortex. It's a conventional electrolysis cell with
magnetically assisted ion transport.

Download here

The patent claims that the single cell produces 0.116 liters / sec =
417.6 liters/hour at 2.8V 30A.

Normal electrolysis would produce about 19 liters/hour at 30A, so it's
about 20 times Faraday. Very interesting.

Tero

We all need to experiment and work as a team to find solutions to the possibility of running a car on water and find answers to the following:

To date there is only one person that I know of who has successful powered a small engine continuously from a battery source. This was Linnard at Oupower. His work can be viewed here (Linnard’s Water Engine)

Any more relevant information will be appreciated. I would like to extend this resource:

A lot more detailed information is in this book Fuel from water and also other books and information in the resource section.